The Capitalist Kids

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November 28, 2013 by Wasted Opportunities Zine

Appeared in W.O. Zine Issue 6:

Pop punk and politics are often like oil and water– they don’t usually mix. Same can be said of love and politics. The two aren’t usually associated, perhaps for the worse. So its rare when a band comes around that via some musical alchemy is able to combine pop punk, love songs and politics. The Capitalist Kids are master alchemists, mixing Lookout-era pop punk with a critical, yet personable, perspective on capitalism and the state of the world while placing it next to love songs which have more heart than the usual fare and somehow make it all work. The world’s fucked up but there’s still things in the world that are of value– our relationships with the ones we love, music, and laughing. The Capitalist Kids capture such sentiments. If I was to describe a dream band then the Capitalist Kids come pretty close to fitting that bill. Intelligent, humorous, heartfelt, melodic and catchy. The band has a sharp edge to many of its lyrics but also a soft side. Singer and Guitarist Jeff Gammill was kind enough to talk to me about both aspects of the band… 

Let’s start off by talking about the band a little, its origins and how the band came to be?

It actually started as a kind of solo project. It was around 2004. I had been in a band that had just disbanded, and I had a bunch of songs. I got a 16-track recorder, and I wanted to record the songs for the hell of it. I could play all the instruments except drums, so I ended up getting Dugg to lay down some drum tracks for 4 of the songs. We had played together in a band in high school and we clicked extremely well musically. Even though in the years since our old band had broken up, he had been playing in a thrash band and I had been doing more embarrassingly “new-school” pop-punk stuff, we met up at his place one day, I showed him the songs, and we had the takes in no time.  That kind of relationship is just invaluable. He knows how the songs go before I’ve finished playing them for him.

So, anyway, after the songs were all recorded, I felt compelled to get some CD’s in people’s hands, otherwise, what was the point? And in order to do that, it would help to play a show. But, of course, there was no band. So, I just picked my dream lineup out of the friends I’d played with in the past, which was Dugg on drums, and my buddies Sky and Steven Long on guitar, and they all agreed to do a one-off show to sort of “release” this little homemade CD. We played the show, and it was so much fun that I think we all agreed that this needed to be a band. And that’s how the band came to be, in it’s earliest form.

If you want to know the rest of the story, Dugg and I moved from Fort Worth to Austin, lost Steven Long in the process, and eventually ended up getting Rawn, which is when, in my opinion, the band actually began. Everything finally gelled, and that’s when we started doing real recordings, instead of on my shitty 16-track. That was 2007.

Of course, the latest chapter is we decided to add a second guitarist, and we were lucky enough to get Braden, which added a funky new icing to the cake.

In general the band’s a little older, you’re not 21 year olds running around. Can you shed some light on what you all did before Capitalist Kids came on to the scene? Do you think being a little older/wiser helps the band?

It’s funny, because three of us are far from 21, but with the addition of Braden, our average age has dropped significantly–he hasn’t yet reached 21! Which I think is great, because he injects some youthful vigor into the band (and honestly, he’s mature for his age), but we still benefit from the vast wisdom of our collective years, ha ha.

Sometimes I feel like being older hurts the band, because younger people tend to be the ones who come out to shows and buy music, and we are a little out of touch with what is hip. But it is what it is, and I don’t mind, because it’s taken us this long to get good at what we do, so there you go.

The band had a bit of a revolving line-up when first getting started until Rawn joined the band, why did you persist with the group until that point?

Dugg and I were the core, and we persisted because we don’t know anything else. Even though it was obvious folly in hindsight, I thought at the time that having a guitar player that lived 3 hours away would be doable. Then we ended up getting offered shows and he couldn’t make it to play, so there was a period when Dugg and I ended up doing a few shows as a two-piece with me on guitar. It was at one such show that Ben Snakepit first saw us, and he dug it. When we realized the situation was untenable, we started asking around about guitarists, and Ben was into it. But before too long he became stretched too thin with all his projects, so he quit, and we finally got Rawn and became a real band. Everything about that felt right and we were able to really get going.

The band’s from Austin, TX, which I’ve heard is a little different than the rest of the state. Is Texas’ reputation unfair these days? What are some surprising things about the area that you take hope from?

I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said “I’m not from Texas, I’m from Austin”. Austin is definitely the exception to the “red state” of Texas, even though it’s the capital, where Rick Perry lives and all that. It can be very embarrassing to be from Texas with some of the geniuses we have representing us, but Austin is a great town. I’m from Fort Worth, TX, and I moved here as soon as I saw it, because it’s full of progressive people, independent businesses, bike lanes, and art. That being said, it’s growing at an alarming rate, and changing rapidly for the worse in many ways. If the rent keeps rising, we may all be priced out before too long.

What are some important local issues you’re involved in or following? What are some things occurring in Austin that really piss you off?

One local issue I’m following is an effort to bring a standard living wage to all jobs in Austin. That would mean all employers, public and private, would have to pay their employees at least $11/hr, which would be awesome. I’m also very anxious for the city’s new composting program to begin.

One thing that bums me out is you see “Infowars” magazine everywhere these days. It’s put out by this lunatic Alex Jones.

 I’m curious if the band’s name ever attracts some Glenn Beck- libertarian types coming to shows after misunderstanding what the band is about?

I think a very tiny number of times someone has got the wrong idea and “liked” us on Facebook or something, but I don’t know that any of them have come to shows. I suppose it’s possible, but they’ve never spoken to us. People do ask us very often “Are you guys really capitalist?” We always just fuck with them for a minute.

What comes first- your music or your political views?

Music, easy. I was writing songs as a youngster before the politics crept in. Political views just sometimes add another layer. The vast majority of music I listen to has no political content.

When I listen to the band I get energized and excited as your music combines many of my loves into one package. I was wondering what gets you all pumped, gets you thinking or excited- whether music or something else?

Just music in general is such a passion and a natural high. When we’re in the practice space and we’re working on a new song and everything is falling into place, it’s pretty euphoric for me.

The band’s songs have a political and social message in many of them. Do you like the label ‘political’ band? Do you like it applied to The Capitalist Kids?

I certainly don’t mind it. I know it turns some people away, but that’s not going to bother us. The band itself is not an activist group. There just happens to be a lot of socio-political content in our lyrics. For every person that is turned off by it, someone else might be drawn to it. It’s definitely not a marketing strategy, but since Propaghandi went metal, where is a pop-punk fan supposed to go for political diatribes disguised as music?

Do any of you subscribe to a specific set of ideas and principles that are clearly defined? A particular ‘ism’ so to speak? Or are your perspectives more free-flowing than that?

Hmm. Well, -isms can be tricky, because sometimes they can get you lumped in with others who subscribe to the same -ism. I would say I’m an environmentalist and a conservationist, so I oppose things like fracking, moutaintop removal, and destructive oil drilling. I’m anti-waste, anti-pollution, anti-Pacific Trash Vortex, as it were. I consider myself a Socialist in the sense that I don’t believe the CEO of a corporation should make 400x what the janitor is making. I believe in everyone having the right to medical care and assistance when they need it. If you need a good argument against American Capitalism, just look at the Health Insurance industry. Their entire reason for existing is to deny people health care coverage. Why do we let that exist? I’m a feminist because I don’t believe in double-standards. Not for gender, not for sexual orientation, not for “American Exceptionalism”.

As far as principles, I’m a fan of honesty and integrity. I also believe it’s important to be pragmatic and not get too wrapped up in ideology. I want to be skeptical and have things proven to me.

Does everyone in the band share the same politics? Do you discuss or debate the songs and meanings?

I would say, for the most part, we pretty much see eye to eye. I might be the most strident. We do occasionally discuss the song lyrics, so everyone knows what a song is about (not that there is ever any subtlety or abstraction, but you can’t make out the lyrics at practice). I remember specifically discussing the term “gender binary” recently in the context of a new song “Gender Binary Bop”.

There has never been a time when I wrote something and felt “Gee, I hope the guys don’t mind me singing that”, so I think that means that we’re not very different politically. But most of the stuff is so obvious–gay people should be able to get married, rich CEOs shouldn’t get golden parachutes, Sarah Palin is ridiculous–there’s not really going to be a lot of disagreement. Dugg and I have known each other the longest, and we often recommend books and documentaries to each other and all that. And Dugg is the one that introduced me to Billy Bragg and Phil Ochs (as well as a lot of my favorite bands), so there’s that.

Pop Punk is not a genre known for outspoken politics. J-Church is one of the few that really comes to my mind. Why pop punk as the medium of your expression? Why not ‘progressive thrash’ or folk music etc. styles that have more of a tradition of politically informed songwriting?

That’s simple: pop-punk is what we’re good at. It’s pretty much all I’ve ever played or written. But at this point in my life, I don’t go in for pop-punk just for it’s own sake. All I’m attracted to is good songwriting. I just happen to believe that the medium of pop-punk can be the best vessel to deliver a well-written song, if it’s done right. Thrash is fine for anger, but I’ve never understood the point of writing lyrics that no one will hear because you‘re just screaming. Folk music is great, but I like a beat that makes you want to dance and I personally need a lot of distorted guitars masking my shitty singing voice.

But you are right, pop-punk is not usually political, and I think there is a good-sized segment of pop-punk fans that have a downright aversion to politics. That’s hippy stuff, I just want cheeseburgers and girls and booze and Chuck Taylors. When Chuck Taylors were bought by Nike (one of the worst corporations in the world) in 2003, and nobody cared, that was very instructive to me in terms of where the politics of pop-punkers lie. So I don’t really give a fuck about the genre. I just like upbeat songs.

The band never feels preachy, there’s a sense of fun to the songs no matter the subject matter for the most part. How important is finding that balance to the band?

Thank you for saying that. Honestly, I’m always (pleasantly) surprised that more people don’t criticize us as being preachy. It goes back to the earlier question about the music being more important than the politics. People don’t listen to music to be told how to live. And they don’t come to shows to hear a lecture. Music should be fun. But, if you’re listening to a song and the person singing it is expressing something akin to the way you feel about a subject, it can give you this “right on!” sensation, and you might feel you’re not alone on something.

Nobody comes to the Capitalist Kids because they want to be informed on certain political issues. If one of our songs has ever made anyone think differently about anything for a minute, that’s tremendous. I think at best there’s just an enjoyment in hearing somebody take what you already thought and making it rhyme, ha ha. And only about half of our songs are political, so if it slightly bores you, you can maybe overlook it.

Not having the chance to see a Capitalist Kids show, is it a case of less talk, more rock? Or do you try to talk and engage the audience during your live shows like giving some background to the songs when you present them live?

You know, I do try to give a little setup for the songs now and then, but I just try to keep it very brief and minimal. Because we do have that dual purpose of having a message and being entertaining, but you don’t want to bore anybody. I think it’s enough to just state what the song is about, and not really have a whole discussion. I’m not Jello Biafra. I’m not really very smart, and on stage in front of people, I’m even less smart, so I’m not going to go on any diatribes.

What’s the overall mindset with the band and its music- Is your music just a personal expression of how you understand the world or more a deliberate tool for outreach/activist effort? What’s your sense on the relationship between your music and your politics? How do you place them in your life and the interactions between the two?

Good question. A little of column A, a little of column B. That is to say, I write about what I think about. So, you have songs about girls that I have a crush on, or that have broken my heart, and then you have songs about my frustrations with the world as it is. But at the same time, if you know you’re being oppressed and your planet is being destroyed(by, say, an evil, voracious Capitalist system), it’s your moral obligation to–at the very least–speak out about it. So, while I’m under no illusions that I’m changing the world by writing silly pop songs that practically no one will ever hear, I’m doing the bare minimum by letting people know where I stand. Maybe that soothes my conscience.

A song can only do so much to change things. How do you carry your efforts and politics past just the song and performance, do you do some type of activism or volunteering at all?

Not as much as I should. I’d love to throw my body in front of the construction of the Keystone XL pipeline, but I’ve got a job and all that. I read a lot and try to stay informed, which is almost a type of rebellion in itself. I subscribe to “the Progressive” and I read a lot of Chomsky, Naomi Klein, etc. I sign a lot of online petitions, which counts for very little, but it’s something. I attend rallies and marches for a variety of things, which unfortunately also don’t have a huge impact, but again, it‘s not nothing. I contribute meager amounts of money to organizations like the ACLU and Greenpeace, because they are actually doing things. I have volunteered at places like Inside Books (mailing books to prisoners) and Food Not Bombs (getting surplus food and feeding hungry people), but again, not nearly as much as I should. My wife is an amazing person who is a union organizer and a volunteer at a local farm, and who’s lifelong passion is criminal justice reform. So, by attaching myself to her coattails, I get to feel like slightly less of a piece of shit.

The band does occasionally put its money where its mouth is by playing certain benefits and stuff. We’ve played at fundraisers for Occupy Austin (the local version of Occupy Wall Street), the Center for Economic Research and Social Change, which funds Haymarket Books, and next month we’re doing one for the Austin chapter of Anarchist Black Cross’ political prisoners.

Can you chart the development of your political views and how they developed? Was it a revelatory moment or a steady progression? How about with music and punk rock in particular? Did it mirror how your politics came to be?

I don’t think there was one revelatory moment. My entire life I had the feeling that everything was fucked up, but I didn’t have any answers, or know exactly what the specific questions were. I remember being very young and riding in a car with my dad and Rush Limbaugh was on the radio. Limbaugh was saying that taxing the rich was “punishing people for success”. I was a child, and I knew that that statement was ludicrous. It just seemed like common sense to me then, as it does now. (The incredible thing is that two decades later, Limbaugh and his ilk are still saying the exact same things.) I know that the first election I was old enough to vote in was 2000, and I voted for Nader, which I am still proud of. I’ll never forget the fact that he was physically barred from participating in the debates. To me, that said everything about the validity of American democracy.

I don’t remember when I first read Noam Chomsky or what guided me to Howard Zinn’s epic ‘People’s History’, but I know the first time I ever heard Chomsky was the sample on that Propaghandi album. So, obviously punk rock was influential to my thinking. The idea of completely ignoring the major label industry and all the falsity of MTV and all that, and just existing underground, that was huge to me.

Also, the people that you meet when you get into punk rock can influence your politics. In high school I ended up hanging out with the punks at a friend’s house who had the Crass “Your Country Needs You” poster on his bedroom wall. I’d never seen anything that subversive before. Just putting the horrible, ugly truth out there like that in a world where everyone prefers sanitized versions of reality and happy thoughts. I think it really resonated with me.

Of course, it took a while for me to grow into it. I remember listening to Bad Religion at the age of 14 and hearing the line “someone’s gotta tell me, do you see/that everything around you has a hidden tragedy?” and thinking, “Man, what a depressing way to look at the world.” Now I’m the one bumming people out, ha ha.

Do you think that’s why pop punk (and people in general) perhaps aren’t very political as it’s a genre built around having fun, so it avoids being bummed out? Perhaps based around the assumption that you can’t be concerned about the world and have fun at the same time?

That may be true, but I also think in order to put the “punk” in “pop-punk” it doesn’t hurt to have a good dose of anger. And sometimes I guess some bands don’t have the anger, so they substitute snottiness and irreverence. Middle finger at the world, so to speak, rather than middle finger at the power structures that are controlling your life.

But “punk” music is extremely varied, and you can certainly find all kinds of music under that umbrella that is all about being bummed out. Some people have stories to tell, and things to say. Some are poets. Some are just going to get up there and sing about pop-culture or how they hate their job. All of that is fine. As far as politics, I think there is a general consensus that pop and politics should not mix. Some of us disagree with that, so our music is out there for that niche market.

For me, while I’m passionate about my political beliefs I find that discussing them or writing about them is a process that’s not necessarily one of passion but thought and consideration to ensure the logic of my ideas and arguments are clear. Which may seem the antithesis of writing a more personal story- of being in love for example. How do you go about writing politically-themed songs while ensuring they remain genuine and engaging, rather than perhaps too academic or doctrinaire?

I guess that’s not too hard because I’m not an academic. I’ve never really thought about it before, but yeah, you do want it to feel personal if it’s going to connect with anyone. I don’t always achieve that. I’ve got an anti-death penalty song that is just a straight laundry list of arguments against capital punishment. So, they can’t all be gems. Referring to your earlier question, that one would definitely fall into the “band as deliberate tool for outreach” category.

Do you write much as a band? How involved is everyone?

It varies a little, but basically what happens is I have the song pretty much written and I bring it to the group as basically a skeleton to build on. I probably have an idea of the basic tempo or beat, but that’s always up to Dugg’s discretion. So I say, here are the chords, you guys try to have fun with it. Sometimes I’ll say, “It needs an intro, who’s got something?” or sometimes things will just happen organically. I’m aware that it’s not the most collaborative way to write, so I always hope the guys will find a way to put a little of their own stank on it. They almost always do, which is always a thrill for me, getting to hear a song evolve and surprise you. Each member has a democratic say in how each song should ultimately be presented. And now with two guitars, we’re in a whole new area of collaboration. Braden’s playing seems to come from a somewhat unconventional place, which adds a very interesting layer.

Pop punk deals with love and relationships as some of the genre’s key themes/topics. Capitalist Kids are no different. Writing in a genre and style where women are typically represented as only objects of affection/ill feelings/lust, have you encountered much resistance to trying to turn that on its head, with a more critical or feminist perspective?

Can’t say we’ve encountered any resistance, but we have actually been slightly criticized by one reviewer for the gendered power dynamics in our lyrics that she felt, while not themselves damaging, “fit into a cultural matrix of songs written by men about women, [wherein] there is an issue of speaking for rather than speaking with.” This was an eye-opener for me, and I had a pleasant conversation with the reviewer.

Anyway, we are not feminist heroes, but fortunately the bar in pop-punk is extremely low.

Has your song writing changed since that conversation? Or have you revaluated some of your previous songs that may now appear in a different light, or even to the point where you wouldn’t play some anymore?

It did cause me to reevaluate the songs (at least the examples she gave), but ultimately I felt that I was innocent of any misogyny or anything. A lyric like “I need a tube or two of superglue so I can glue her to me tonight” is not meant as some entitled, possessive thing; it’s just meant as “I like being around this person–I want to be around them as much as possible”, but being cute with it, and rhyming with “shooby-doo” and “to be true”.

Also, a lot of my stuff is tongue-in-cheek. “And pretty soon now you’re gonna wonder how / you ever lived before you met me”? That is not something I would say in real life. That kind of cocky braggadocio is something that is only possible in a rock and roll song. In my opinion, there’s nothing really unequal between sexes in my lyrics. They may be male-centric, but that’s because I’m singing about my thoughts, and I’m a man. I think hoping for anything more enlightened than that is a little unrealistic.

Even though I thought all of the lines she had qualms with were completely harmless, I still took her criticism seriously. When you spend your whole life as a white male, it’s very easy to dismiss any and all criticisms as just whiny P.C. bullshit. You have to actually try to educate yourself and see things from other perspectives. I think I’ve made progress in that area in the last few years. So, anyway, if I write a love song now, it’s possible that I’m going to at some point think about that review. Whether or not it will ever cause me to strike out a line and change it to something else, who can say? I doubt it. The most important thing to me is that it makes a good rhyme, ha ha.

(I feel I should reiterate, it was a very kind review. The reviewer wasn’t trying to attack us at all; she just wanted to point out that to her, some of our lyrics fit into what she feels is a problem in the overall scene, being a bunch of songs in which women don’t have a lot of independence.)

Related to what we were talking about, do you think that being politically aware/concerned leads one down a rabbit hole of never being able to do the right thing 100% of the time (like the above criticism for example as valid as it may or may not be) and that’s also why people just avoid politics altogether? Rather than being encouraged to further progress with one’s ideas it’s often a case of attracting further criticism for not being ‘progressive’ enough. A case of damned if you do, damned if you don’t?

As long as people offering criticism are mindful of their tone and attitude, and people being criticized can keep an open mind, be thick-skinned, and get over this obsession we all have with being right all the time, then people will be fine. We should each strive to evolve, should we not?

I don’t think the frustration with never being progressive enough to please everybody is really the biggest reason people avoid politics. I think that would be a whole nother discussion.

I know that having a critical perspective on the dominant culture of the day forces one to make compromises from time to time. How do you view compromise? In what ways does being in a band force you to compromise?

The obvious one is that you’re driving around the country in a fossil-fueled van. And sometimes you will do something unthinkable, like eat at a McDonalds. You can rationalize it however you want. I really wish we had a diesel van that we could run on biodiesel, but we don’t. I wish we had an electric van, and our country had the infrastructure to support that kind of thing, but we don’t. We’re not a big enough band to have to deal with any real compromises, like being offered a gig at some event sponsored by Coca-Cola or something.

Does the band’s political side ever close doors, make it difficult to function- whether booking shows or another example at all?

Nah, like I said, we’re a very small band. We don’t have to worry about not being allowed at the Clear Channel festival. We book shows with like-minded people and we play a lot of living rooms.

Has there ever been a topic you’ve thought about writing about but decided not to? Or weren’t able to?

Another good question. Yes. One topic that I have never been able to complete a song on is racism. It’s just too huge. And like you said earlier, you don’t want something too academic or doctrinaire. The closest I’ve ever come is a song I have about Trayvon Martin.

I have also tried and failed multiple times to write a song about the Democrat and Republican parties being two heads of the same beast. Sometimes you just don’t get that little bit of luck that makes a song work.

As I get older, it gets increasingly challenging to take a complex issue and turn it into a 2-minute pop song. I’m no Phil Ochs. There’s also the tricky issue or timeliness. There is such a long delay from the time I write a song to the time that it is actually released, there’s a danger of stuff being dated. And then also, you want it to have a long shelf-life. I’ve always wanted to write a song about how much Obama sucks. Because when George Bush was president, everyone got political, because he was such an easy target. Then Obama came along, and everyone went back to sleep because they wanted to believe that he stood for all the things he said on the campaign trail. Meanwhile this Wall Street-funded Rockefeller Democrat is killing Pakistani civilians and curtailing civil liberties left and right. So, if I could write an anti-Obama song, that would be fucking punk. But even if I did, by the time anyone heard it he’d be out of office, or he’d have magically become a great progressive leader in his second term, and I’d look foolish, ha ha.

The band has written two odes to two women of the far right. Will we see more in that series- Ann Coulter perhaps? Or should we expect some songs about prominent male right wingers in the future?

No, it was never planned to be a series. Although, on Ann Coulter, we did talk back then about covering a song that already exists called “I’m in Love With Ann Coulter” by a real-life conservative band we saw on MySpace a million years ago called the Right Brothers (see the pun there?). But their song is already in a mall-punk style (you can find it on YouTube if you‘re curious), so if we covered it, we’d just sound like a shitty version of all the bands we don’t want to be associated with.

The love songs on the albums feel personal, autobiographical compared to many in the genre which are a bit more standard or generic. Why do you think might be?

I just have a personal drive to try to write lyrics that are slightly more interesting than the cookie-cutter love songs that a lot of bands crank out. I admire the love songs of Billy Bragg, because he tells a story and sort of paints a picture. To me that’s infinitely better than another “you’re so neat/you’re so sweet” ditty. It’s not that it’s necessarily bad, but if we’ve all heard the exact same sentiment and the exact same rhymes before in the 1950s, then it’s just boring.

Jeff, your partner seems to have a lot of songs written for her/about her, does she still appreciate the sentiment? Does she have a band or creative endeavour where she can return in kind?

If you want to know the truth, she originally hated me writing songs about her, I think because she’s just a very private person. There was more than one occasion where I swore I would stop forever, but somehow it always happened again. Thankfully she finally became OK with it somehow. I guess I wore her down. She doesn’t have a band or anything, she has a real life, as I mentioned earlier in this interview.

What’s being on tour like in terms of being in a relationship? Does the time apart put a strain on things or does it help make the heart grow fonder?

No doubt about it, being away from home for three weeks at a time is not ideal for a relationship. If someone really loves you, they will put up with it. I personally find it does make the heart grow fonder. The hopeless romantic in me enjoys the chance to yearn for someone.

Have any of you ever tried to win someone’s heart through writing a song? Any success if you have?

Yes, several times. I’ve had a pretty good success rate.

What’s the lamest thing you’ve tried to do to impress someone you were attracted to? Any funny stories of embarrassment?

One time I had a crush on a girl from Albania, so I looked up Albania on Wikipedia and casually threw out my knowledge of their main exports and shit. “Oh, you’re from Albania? You guys use the lek as currency, if I’m not mistaken, no?” I remember thinking, this is just straight out of a lame sitcom or something.

Thinking about pop-punk, or punk more broadly, what are some of things you’ve seen as a touring, active band that you’d like to see improved within the scene, that really rub you the wrong way?

I have to say, it’s mostly positive. People are super-nice–if it’s a house show, they donate for gas money. Nobody gets violent in the mosh pit because we just don’t really inspire mosh pits. The only improvement needed is for people to buy a lot more merch, ha ha.

What are some issues you see building on the horizon that make you worried about being an independent band?

I think it’s an exciting time to be an independent band because the internet has sort of leveled the playing field, if you will. It’s a double-edged blade because in the internet age people don’t expect to pay for things, so it can be tough when you’re a small band and you’re self-financing things and/or small, independent labels are releasing your stuff, and people just pirate it. But the bottom line is, if people want your album, you have to be flattered. And most people could never afford to pay for all the music they want to listen to. Thankfully there are still a lot of heroes out there who willingly pay for music, or are vinyl purists who have to have the real package.

One recent troubling issue is the rising cost of postage as the US Postal Service is going through some financial trouble (It‘s a whole complicated thing that our media is misinforming us about, but I won‘t go into that here). So sending packages overseas is now more expensive for small labels.

Jeff, I see you do a lot of amateur photography- what’s the attraction for you? What does the rest of the band do for fun outside of music?

Photography is a big hobby of mine, and so is birding, so those two fit perfectly together. I would love to photograph every bird before I die. The other guys are each in so many bands that I don’t know that they have much time for anything else besides work,  music, and relaxing with some Netflix. I know Dugg likes to hang with his dog, Daisey Mae.

Most pop punk fans are dorks in some form or another. Are you guys into any nerdy stuff? I for example am a diehard Star Trek fan.

I am an enormous fan of MST3K. I have the tattoo to prove it. Let’s see, Braden and I share a love of Douglas Adams novels. I’m a dork about old detective stories–Sherlock Holmes, Ellery Queen. I know Braden, Rawn, and myself are all fans of Zelda games. I’m not much into comic books, even though my dad used to draw them, but I’m pretty sure Rawn and Braden are. Dugg has plenty of opportunities to yell “Nerds!!!” at the rest of us, as is his custom. Oh, yeah, I’m also a dork about pinball!

You’re dad drew comics?! That’s cool, would comic-minded people know his work? Did any of his skills rub off on you? I noticed you have some cartoon album covers? Ever get your dad to do some band artwork?

He’s fairly well-known, his name is Kerry Gammill if you want to look into it. Worked for Marvel in the 80s and DC in the 90s. A bit of his artistic talent did rub off on me. I actually went to art school for animation 100 years ago, but that path didn’t work out for me. On the question of my dad doing some band artwork, a little bird recently told me that she has heard whispers on the wind that he might just be doing our next album cover.

So the band can play only one show with either Propagandhi or the Ramones. Where do your allegiances lie?

Ha ha, I’m gonna have to say the Ramones, assuming that in this hypothetical world, the Ramones are alive and kicking. Propaghandi had two great albums, but the Ramones are the fucking Ramones. Johnny was a right-winger, but we’ll check that at the door. Alternately, if we’re playing with reanimated zombie-Ramones, that would be pretty phenomenal.

Second to last, What gives you a sense of renewal in this fucked up world?

MST3K.

Finally, as the zine is called Wasted Opportunities I always ask about a time where you either let an opportunity go to waste, or a time when you were ‘wasted’ perhaps drunk or high and an opportunity came your or the band’s way?

It’s no secret that I’m a huge fan of the Mr. T Experience. And it’s no secret that their peak period was the years that Joel Reader was on bass. Well, one time a few years ago I went to see Pansy Division play. I had no idea that Joel was playing guitar for them. I happened to be wearing my MTX shirt and he saw me at the bar and kind of gave me a look, but I didn’t realize who he was right away. Then Pansy Division played and I was like “That’s fucking Joel Reader.” So after they played I was all like “Holy shit, dude, I didn’t know that was you” and he was all “I was going to say something because of your shirt, but I didn’t want to be weird” and I was all “blah blah blah” and then he goes “I’ve got to go play another set with this other band (the Avengers), but I’d love to talk to you afterwards”. Unfortunately I was already very drunk (wasted) and I had to work the next morning, and I just felt like I couldn’t make it all the way through the last band, so I went home. So, there you have it. I had an opportunity to talk to the man who played my instrument in my favorite pop-punk band, and I wasted it because I’m lame and I suck at partying.

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